I am not going to win that competition, because
(a) no holiday company in their right mind would put a photo of a baby with alcohol on their website
(b) the terms and conditions state that you have to be resident in the UK
(c) I didn't write the post I wanted to write because I left it too late and was hurrying to meet the deadline (I am the 49th entry out of 49), and
(d) because this fabulous post should win. In my opinion. And I didn't read all 48, so don't get cross with me if you're one of the others. Perhaps I just skipped yours.
Even if not a competition winner, the post does give me a perfect segue into a subject that I've been meaning to write about for ages. Alcohol. And this is where I go all prudish on you. Sorry. Please love me anyway.
I had to give the school a baby photo of 14-yo recently. They put together a montage with a baby photo and a current photo of each child. There were oohs and aahs as the slideshow played. I'm imagining that if I'd submitted the photo from my last post, it would have elicited a giggle, or a full-blown laugh, from the audience in a British school. Here, there would have been a silence. An awkward silence. I guess the equivalent would be if you sent in a photo of your smiling baby, sitting on a sofa, with a used syringe by his side. Not quite so funny, eh?
Quite honestly, I am shocked by the UK's acceptance that you can't really go to a city centre on a Saturday night, unless you want to tiptoe your way through the drunken brawls while sidestepping the vomit. Are you really happy, you British taxpayers, that a big chunk of the money you give to that wondrous phenomenon "socialised medicine" is used up in A&E departments, scraping people off the floor and propping them up against a wall until they sober up? Is it reasonable to expect our lovely British Bobbies and A&E medics to spend their Saturday nights doing this?
When I was in England last summer, I was shopping in Curry's, and got chatting to the sales assistant, as he was filling in details about some warranty or other. (Yes, I bought some kind of a warranty on a Curry's product... don't judge me... love me anyway...) He started joking about the week-end, and saying he wouldn't be up to much on Sunday, because he was going out on Saturday night, and we all know what that means. It went over my kids' heads, but it did give me pause for thought. Was it really OK to joke with a customer about getting drunk? It has become commonplace humour that we drink too much (just look at the 'About Me' sections of mummy blogs). Is that really very funny? I'd like to go all smug here, and say that living away from your own culture does give you the opportunity to see some aspects of it in a new way.
After living here for 5 years, I have come to a changed perspective on alcohol. I don't think they get it totally right here - there is a prudishness verging on anxiety. The university where Husband teaches is obsessive about allowing no alcohol on campus, including the student dorms. (Yes, you read that correctly.) So I'm not saying 'come, be like us', and the circles we hang out in do definitely crack open a bottle of wine on social occasions. Either that, or they say to each other beforehand "oh no, it's those English people, help, we'll have to have wine on offer otherwise they're so uptight they can't relax and it's so awkward, but we'll have to pretend that we usually have wine with a meal..." There's also a very odd combination of Christianity and low alcohol tolerance. If you go to a church event, it's almost unheard of to find a glass of wine there. It's odd, because of the little we know about Jesus, we know that he drank wine. And if I had to lay money on whether a glass of red wine does you more damage than a can of Coke, I know which one I'd pick. Oh, except that would be gambling. Alcohol and now gambling. See how quickly one can descend the slippery slope.
Where was I? Oh yes. I don't think they get it completely right here, but I do think they do a better job than in contemporary Britain. There is more protection of young people, and there is less reliance on alcohol to oil the social wheels. The topic is getting more acute for me, what with a 14.5 year old in the house. Here, you can't drink until you're 21. We all know that people do, of course of course, but it does make for a difference to the teenage years. Alcohol really isn't on 14-yo's horizon yet. Social events are either hanging out with the boys at someone's house, or school dances and formal birthday dances, touchingly old-fashioned in feel, and certainly alcohol-free. I am reliably informed that if we were in England, alcohol already would be very much on his horizon. Chalk that up as another reason to love being in America (though I can't lay that one at David Cameron's door).
I would love to know what the right approach is with teenagers. Husband and I always thought we'd go with the idea that by modelling moderation, and by introducing them to alcohol gradually over the years, you teach them to drink responsibly. But I do wonder if in fact what you are doing is teaching them to drink, full stop. The latest research backs this up (but I can't find it now. Bother.) On the other hand, if you don't teach them how to drink, the rest of society sure will once they move beyond home.
I am going to become Amish and move into their lovely horse-drawn-buggy-filled world. My children can leave when they are 25, but not a day before. That is totally the answer.
Good observation on cultural differences. I didn't realize that drinking played the role you describe in English culture, so there's my new piece of info for the day. Hard to say what's the 'right' way to raise your kids vis-a-vis alcohol. We've always followed the 'demonstrate responsibility and moderation' path and so far it seems to have worked with Son#1 (now 18). Here in Seoul, the drinking culture is very strong, especially in the (still very male-dominated) business world. The pressure is very strong for men to drink to excess. I worry about how that will affect our own 14.5 yo son, but so far his sweet nerdy little crowd doesn't seem interested. Culturally speaking, I think you're very right about the baby photo: putting such a thing up in a slideshow at a US school would be a no-no, although privately many people would probably chuckle about it.
ReplyDeleteI am very fond of alcohol, but I agree that the getting blotto on Friday and Saturday night in the UK is crappy. Many town and city centres are effective no-go areas for the none drunken. There seems to be no way to control it.
ReplyDeleteI can find the US attitude a little puritanical, though - even though I live in a party/holiday state where the alcohol laws are relatively lax. I must admit that I find the continental European vibe the best.
British drunken culture goes back hundreds of years, there are historical reports of it in medaeval times. The Scandinavians have troubles with alcohol too. I can help wondering if those long dark, cold, damp nights in Northern Europe send you a little crazy.
Unsurprisingly the attitude to alcohol in Moscow is a little different. This is a country where beer is only just being reclassified as being alcohol; up until now it was called a 'refreshing soft drink...
ReplyDeleteI've found the Americans I've known to have a very love or hate relationship with alcohol. A seeming prudeness followed by total over indulgence at university (at levels that made my university drinking seem teetotal) followed by complete or almost complete abstinence. It follows my vague and general theory that Americans are more likely to have more extreme views on things than Europeans. Do I mean extreme? Not in a bad way, but more determined, more passionate really.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, alcohol. I think there is something to be had for teaching children how to drink responsibly. There has to be an element of teenagers working out what the limits are for themselves (as most of us did at some point) but combined with that must be an understanding of how antisocial drunken behaviour is. I have a friend whose mother used to work in A&E and she took her children in on a Saturday night to show what it was like dealing with very drunk people who have had really stupid accidents/got into fights. Certainly made an impression.
I once (long before I dreamed of being married to a Scot) went to Edinburgh for Hogmanay. At about 12.03, after (honestly, hardly anything to drink - unsurprising train delays had put paid to the pre-dinners), I slipped on a patch of ice, clonked my head on the kerb and ended up in the Royal Infirmary.
ReplyDeleteThe Royal Infirmary in Edinburgh on Hogmanay is a field hospital (in fact, now they have actual field hospitals in tents in the city centre). There are no beds, just plastic covered mattresses on the floor. They breathalyse you as you are admitted (hence why I can be certain I hadn't had very much). On the mattress next to me was a 13 year old called Matthew. He was so drunk he didn't know what his surname was, where he lived or his telephone number. All he could do was be sick, and cry, and be sick again, while the nurses waited for him to sleep it off sufficiently that they could trace his parents.
I was horrified then and I am horrified now. I think that was an extreme case, but I'm also sure there will have been other 13 year olds in there that night. And I think you're right. That wouldn't happen in the States (or indeed, Paul, in France or Spain).
How do you change that? How do you educate your children? I don't know. Ours are too little still (although we too have the obligatory comedy photo of baby with alcohol (and yes, I do find it amusing - I loved yours too, and not just for the takeaway menu)), but I think all you can do is set a good example. I'm quite up tight when it comes to this sort of thing so I've never really been a massive drinker (don't like the loss of control), and I'm hoping my lot will inherit that (as well as their father's appreciation for (very) fine wine).
ps I'm not sure it's quite as bad here as you think - parts of some cities on some nights, yes, but not everywhere, and not all. Or maybe I'm being naive.
It is a little disappointing that so many cities and towns in the UK are almost no-go zones at the weekend. Newcastle was hopping way back when I used to go out clubbing, but now it's terrible, and it goes on until the wee hours.
ReplyDeleteI'm at the stage when my teens would be drinking if we were in the UK. The Queenager isn't supposed to drink at college, but the college knows they all do and does its best to make sure that no one gets into real trouble. She's almost 19 so I'm just warning her that if she gets into trouble over it, she'll get kicked out of college. Not much more I can do now. The real problem here is that they get into cars after drinking and think nothing of it. I find this part of the US attitude very hypocritical. They tend to be more uptight about booze (although not here in Chicago) but will happily get in their cars with their kids, having had more than they should.
If you get a chance, see Ken Burns's documentary "Prohibition" for context on American attitudes to alcohol. I agree we don't have it all figured out here, but we have made a real effort in most states over the past 30 years or so to address problems with drunk driving in particular. Mothers against Drunk Driving really made a difference. It was acceptable in the 50s and 60s to cruise around with a beer in hand. As was smoking in public buildings, buses, airplanes, etc.
ReplyDeleteIn college I was always struck by one expression my British friends used a lot: something like "It was just like we were drinking together" to denote comfort and compatibility with someone. It seemed an odd standard for friendship, even to my hippy-dippy little self.
By the way, we give our 14 year old a mouthful of fizzy wine at special family meals, such as when her uncle came to visit from South Korea. It's partly to make her feel included and partly intended to give her a sense of sensible, moderate drinking, rather than the puritan/drunkard thing. She doesn't like alcohol much so there are no immediate concerns in that area for us.
ReplyDelete'Prudish verging on anxiety' very much describes the non-drinking attitude my parents raised me with. I think my generation looks at drinking with more of a relaxed view and my brother, who is a bit younger, even more relaxed. Being in full-time church work and interacting with a lot of older people has forced me to adopt a basic no drinking practice, although my friends in Europe have definitely helped me understand the other side, which I greatly appreciate. Living in Ukraine is a whole other story since there are basically the two extremes and nothing in moderation. Thanks for approaching the topic - I appreciate your perspective!
ReplyDeleteLike Expat Mum, I have been quite shocked here by the different attitude to drink driving. I go on Moms Nights Out where respectable 30 something women are quite happy to down several drinks then get in their car - I do think the attitude is different in the UK. Having said that, I agree that the binge drinking culture in the UK is really worrying. Teens in the town where we live just don't hang out getting drunk - you're more likely to find them standing outside the local cinema or pizza place. But I think it's a longstanding cultural thing, not to do with the drinking age. I'm not sure how we can get it to change in the UK.
ReplyDeleteI was stunned when a UK colleague told me about providing alcohol to his son and his friends for a 15th birthday party. He seemed to think the best thing was for them to get drunk at home. That said, I do think the 18 year old drinking age is more sensible than 21, because everyone breaks the 21 rule at Universities and creating a culture of willful lawlessness seems far stupider to me than allowing adults to drink and learn to respect the law straight away.
ReplyDeleteThe binge culture is worrying in the UK, and my biggest beef is still the isolated drunk man who tries to approach me when I'm walking outdoors somewhere, and when I ignore his advances he yells profanity after me. Somehow the alcohol allows for the most amazingly sexist behaviour. And I'll never get used to the open bottle laws such that there is so much public drinking in the streets, which contributes to the problem above. And based on the demographics of what I see, cider should be outlawed.
This is such a tricky topic and one all parents try to get right - I mean who wants to see their child wasted underage.
ReplyDeleteThe UK has such a blase approach to alcohol which is worrying but as a parent I would rather know what my children are doing rather than banning them from drinking and then them doing it anyway.
However the Armish life sounds good too.....
Alcohol is always going to be a worry for parents and in the UK there is a culture of drinking at weekends that, however I think there is overstatment of some aspects of the issue here. In the UK there is definiteley a more blase view of alcohol consuption, but to say that city centres are "almost no-go zones at the weekend" is wild exageration worthy of the Daily Mail. Think about it, if that were the case every theatre and restaurant in City centres would have gone bankrupt and shut down by now.
ReplyDeletePeter Bond
Maybe it was a *slight* exaggeration, but they can be pretty unpleasant places if you are unfortunate enough to be sober. ;-)
DeleteMy experience is that other places in the world don't have the same levels of drunken shouting, puking, stumbling, fighting, swearing and public love-making that you get in the UK on a weekend evening. Being British, I am used to it, but foreign visitors are often very shocked in my experience. That sort of behaviour is not common in the vast majority of the world!
Raised in an almost alcolhol free house in Minnesota, I was shocked as a 20 year old American to see so much alcohol consumed during my first Christmas here.
ReplyDeleteBut now, more than 20 years later, I am giving my teens alcohol at many family dnners. They never overindulge at home. We're wine/beer drinkers with the occasional G&T or whisky. When we serve wine with food it's fun teaching the older teens about how to appreciate food/drink pairings.
And when they've had parties, from age 16 and above, we've allowed alcohol at home. We've done it like this: spoken to the friends parents first, then told our teen host that if anyone is sick, or makes any kind of mess (mud, broken curtain rails etc) they (our child) has to clean it or fix it or pay for it, then we ask how much they thought their friends could reasonably drink without being sick or getting too rowdy and that's how much we get (it's usually been 4 bottles per person). We've got 5 kids and we've never had a sick guest and never had a broken thing. There was mud once but that was cleaned before noon the next day!
I think we're demonstrating respect for them and their decision making, not just respect for alcohol.
But different things work for different people.
It does seem to be peculiarly British doesn't it, this binge drinking culture. I was talking about it with someone from New Zealand the other day and his opinion was that British people were repressed and therefore just couldn't manage socialising without the booze.
ReplyDeleteI remember another conversation years ago with someone from Canada who said that the only time people there ever drank like the Brits was when they were about fifteen and desperately immature. She clearly just thought that it was all a bit pathetic.
It worries me so much though. My own personal stance is that I don't let my teenager drink alcohol. Full stop. Lots of my friends think I'm crazy and that he will just go completely mad and drink loads the first opportunity he gets, but that's my personal decision on the issue and I'm sticking with it.
Interesting post - I do worry if by drinking infront of the girls we are making alcohol acceptable or showing them how to drink responsibly, I think it is probably a fine line
ReplyDeleteI think neither the UK nor the US have it right but excessive drinking has been an issue for the British for centuries - perhaps it is hardwired into us and all we can do is educate and demonstrate responsibility?
We were just talking with (nearly) 10-year-old about alcohol. And pointing out that with all out hopping around countries, there will be a time when she will be allowed to drink alcohol in the UK and it not in the UK. She wanted to know when she would she would "like the taste".
ReplyDeleteNot sure who gets it right, we are just trying to drill into our daughters that you have choices to make, that a (large even) glass of wine with a meal is fine, but that binge drinking with friends is not good. God help us I dread the years to come.
Can't believe how puritanical thi is
ReplyDeleteI'm hoping that my kids drink less than I did as a teenager! Back in the 1980s I was a 5ft 8 14 year old getting served alcohol - by the time I was 17 it was much harder to get served.. My daughter has the occasional tiny glass of wine for special occasions (she is 8) - this is how they do it in Spain and France. I never drink too much when my children are around to witness it. Hopefully her generation will not be like previous ones..
ReplyDeleteHi.. I've lived both cultures too.. I'm from the USA but now live (9years)in the UK. Drinking is more acceptable here as a matter of course but binge drinking is alive and well on BOTH continents !! We drank in USA as young as 12 or 13 and I've seen the same here in the UK. I think that Britains have a more grown up attitude to having a glass of wine but its the youth, the 'binge culture' on both sides of the Atlantic who take things too far. I think your opinions may be a bit skewed from watching your country of birth from afar.. I do the same with the USA (I now cringe when I see an interview with an American..lol). I'm not sure what the answer is but just wanted to say that things are not so different whereever you are ! Jennifer in UK
ReplyDeleteOn a recent 'How to Drug Proof Your Kids' course I attended, the local policewoman told us that the issue in our town is not drugs (not to a major, frightening extent) but alcohol. She spoke of the intoxicated youth and how they stagger around town on Friday/Saturday nights. And I have friends with teenagers who have the dilemma of whether to send their children to parties with alcohol or not, even though underage. Drink is clearly a problem. Or, at least, the control and moderation of it is.
ReplyDeleteI dread my children being drunk, though know it will happen. I can only hope that I am able to show them how to drink in moderation, appropriately in social circumstances and that together we can ride the teenage storm.
Kids in Europe tend to try alcohol at an easy age, but it never ceases to amaze me that they don't turn into binge drinkers as they do in Britain. Well, some of them do. I think you are right, the binge drinking at weekends is a cultural thing. I have absolutely no idea how to change it, I just hope my daughter doesn't pick up on it.
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